Saturday, August 14, 2010

Complete rubbish

David Farrar gets all excited when student associations are fraudulent, and implies that if student associations like the Whitireia Independent Students Association were not compulsory this fraud would never have happened.

This, of course is complete rubbish.

In order for that conclusion to have even a little bit of substance, students would not be able to opt out of membership, and if they could, they would find it hard to do so. But in fact, this Students' Association appears to be very easy to opt out of, should students wish to do so. That is because they have optional membership as do all students associations.
Membership Optional:
As a student you automatically become a Member of the Students Association. This convenient measure means you as a student can access services and amenities immediately from your first day on Campus. However, should you not want to be a member and require a full refund, you must opt out within 20 days from the commencement of your Course of Study. This can be arranged at the Administration Office.
Easy as that. Furthermore, even if you want to opt out after the 20 days, it is still possible to do so under current legislation.

Compulsory membership of Student's Associations has no relationship to fraud of these associations, just like compulsory paying of taxes - by workers and beneficiaries - is not responsible for any of the unemployed being on the dole (and thus taxpayer funded) because they can't yet find a job.




Anonymous Glenn said...

You mightn't be familiar witht he terms, but compulsory membership means that people become mebers wherether they intend to or not. That's compulsory, and it's what we have in New Zealand.

People shouldn't have to take action to get out of things that were meant to be voluntary. Just imagine the uproar if Churches operated this way!

What's more, even after the student affected has used her own time and effort to make her case for opting out, the association still has to approve it, and she will not get her money back.

So I'm afraid it's a clear case of compulsion here.

August 14, 2010 at 8:27 PM  
Anonymous Glenn said...

I should have said: Nobody is required to give her money back.

Dave, since you don't see any compulsion here, I'd like your view on whether or not people should belong to my church unless they opt out. If you would object as it violates freedom of religion, then you should, of course, object to something that violates freedom of association.

Get progressive!

August 14, 2010 at 8:30 PM  
Blogger Swimming said...

It is compulsory to join,(albeit unconsciously) but it is not compulsory to continue to be a part of the membership community.

Actually, I dont think anyone should pay a membership fee to continueto be a member of your church, particularly if they dont attend it, just as I don't think it is necessary for people who are not students should pay a membership fee to join a certain university's student association if they are not studying. And I`m sure you`ll agree

August 14, 2010 at 9:06 PM  
Anonymous Tom said...

It may be easy to opt out is some cases. I know that for OUSA you have to apply on the grounds of conciencious objection, and you have to have some philisophical disagreement, you cant just disagree with their policies. If your application is accepted, the money goes to a charity chosen be them, you do not get a full refund.

"5.1 All students at the University are members of the Association and may exercise the privileges and rights of membership upon payment of the levy."

"5.7 Where any person objects on grounds of conscience to being a member of the Association such person may apply to the Executive for exemption from membership.
5.8 Any person granted an exemption from membership on grounds of conscience will be required to pay the Levy which the Executive will donate to a charity of its choosing. Such persons will be barred from exercising the privileges and rights of membership."

August 15, 2010 at 11:25 AM  
Anonymous Glenn said...

Well yes I do agree (that people should pay without being a member and using services), but what I was getting at is this: Would you object to people being default paying members of my church until and unless they opt out?

And don't you think that a) Associaitions should be required to allow members to opt out, instead of the status quo where they must consider the request, and b) refunds for those who do opt out should be mandatory? Currently as I understand it this is not the case.

So it's still very much about lack of choice (and certainly a lack of choice about paying). As a matter of basic freedom of association, nobody should be considered a member without consent.

August 15, 2010 at 2:06 PM  
Anonymous Glenn said...

Er... make that "that people shouldn't have to pay"

August 15, 2010 at 2:07 PM  
Blogger Swimming said...

I'm not sure I agree that students associations should be required to specifically tell members to opt out - thats a bit a like saying churches should be required to tell members that they can stop being members and not to bother tithing - but I`d rather they be required to advise members - perhaps through their student magazines - that they have the option to opt out of membership if they want.

BTW most students become members by consent by enrolling to study.

August 15, 2010 at 2:35 PM  

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