Wednesday, November 21, 2007

Court overturns Swedish smacking ban

Swedish parents are allowed to smack their children, as long as they dont smack them too hard, according to a recent court decision. A unanimous court ruled that the father's smack did not constitute assault - it was not hard enough to be assault, nor was it done with indifference to the pain it would cause.

It's happend in New Zealand too - except the person got prosecuted by the courts - he was ot allowed to smack his kids lightly - and I`ll link to the story in tormorrows paper when it comes out..

Also here in New Zealand, according to Minister Annette King, when stated laws conflict with parliamentary intent or common sense, we are governed by the law of common sense. So we can smack our kids too. Common sense, really. Well, common to most people outside the House.

UPDATEAs the Herald describes the Annette King Law of Common Sense:
If the law is an ass, then apply the law of common sense. If the law could be interpreted as producing silly outcomes, then assume those were not what the law intended.

Annette King can now kiss her promotion goodbye.
Fark referrals can check this out




Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe little snowflakes need a good ass burn to keep them in check.Or you could choose the other option and spoil the namby pamby little buggers and they'll grow up direspectful and hateful

November 21, 2007 at 5:52 AM  
Blogger Mark Juric said...

I see someone's parents didn't believe in spanking.

November 21, 2007 at 6:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spank them or not, insisting they believe the illogical lies and half-truths you tell them as a condition of your love is the greatest abuse against children.

November 21, 2007 at 6:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

as someone who's parents did in fact hit him. i can say i grew up with no mental anguish or problems. that's not to say i enjoyed the situation. but it does have an effect of teaching kids that there is a consequence for their actions.

November 21, 2007 at 6:30 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother.Proverbs 29:15

Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death. Proverbs 23:13-14

Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him. Proverbs 22:15

He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him. Proverbs 13:24

November 21, 2007 at 6:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Proverbs are often times metaphorical and I don't see any reason to say dogmatically that those written down in the bible were meant to be taken literally.

I'm not against corporal punishment when appropriate but I think that as long as the discipline is administered with love for the child it really doesn't matter what method you choose to use.

November 21, 2007 at 6:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I cut school with my friends in 9th grade, my mother caught me and landed a healthy slap across my cheek in front of those friends. I'm glad she did, cause I was a bad boy. I deserved it, thats for sure. Not enough discipline or shame in the world today.

November 21, 2007 at 7:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The government does not goven by being responsible for their actions - it just legislates to make legal actions that should be illegal, and make adctions that are against the law legal.

November 21, 2007 at 7:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you want to have good kids, sometimes a smacking is in order. My rule is 3 swats, never when angry, and pants stay on. Sure, I have to swing a bit harder to get past the pants, but I dont like the idea of partly undressing my child to discipline.

November 21, 2007 at 7:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah! Beat your kids, or they'll never turn out to be the obedient, god-fearing little robots you've always wanted. You see, people and animals are all the same - if you don't beat them, they don't learn anything and they'll come out all nasty and violent. Or misbehaved and unruly... or worse... a *terrorist*. Then you will have failed both your god and your country.

I love how most of the people who advocate beating children are the same people you hear carrying on about how cruel and violent other cultures can be against women. "Wifebeating? We're far above that, we only beat kids here."

November 21, 2007 at 8:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe that when a parent fails to discipline thier child, that is a form of child abuse. You see, children need structure and discipline.. otherwise they tend to run hog wild. Those of you who say spanking a child is wrong typically fall into 3 catagories...

Catagory 1) People who don't have children.
Catagory 2) People who had parents that took the spanking beyond simple discipline and began abusing them.
Catagory 3) People who are simple-minded enough to believe that the world is all roses and gum drops where we can all get along and be friends if everyone simply believes like they do.

Thank GOD there are parents in this world who still discipline thier children.. simply put it means we will save those children from turning out as spoiled, self centered, unruley brats who think the world owes them everything.

November 21, 2007 at 9:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I believe that when a parent fails to discipline thier child, that is a form of child abuse. You see, children need structure and discipline.. otherwise they tend to run hog wild."

Nice, I like your argument there. You've actually managed to present the idea of NOT beating children - as child abuse. The only way to love and care for them is to strike them, is it? Now I know you said "discipline", and yes discipline has it's place, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about physical punishment, the use of force and pain to get the message across. Not nice. Not loving. It is usually done with genuinely good intent, but I think the goodness usually ends there.

Responding in kind, I'll point out a couple of things about people who DO support beating children:

1) They tend to see kids as naturally, hopelessly out of control - born to live like some crazed, immoral animal unless "strict" parents can show them the "tough love" and beat them into good behaviour.

2) They tend to believe that physical punishment is the only effective way to change kids' behaviour, and reject the idea that anything else might work, or work as well.

3) They support their ideas with anecdotes like "my folks beat me and look how great I turned out", and little nuggets of wisdom from random people they've talked to.

And on and on it goes, all going nowhere... except maybe towards more beats for future generations. Nice.

And no, just for the record, my parents never struck me at all. And I do have adult sons, they are very well behaved, and nobody has ever struck them either, for any reason. They have an excellent understanding of justice, they are both fair and generous, but have nonetheless both been taught to be good fighters in case they are threatened by others. To my knowledge, neither of them have ever struck anybody, and neither of them think that striking kids is okay either... they raise their own children without it, and you know what? It works great. So before you start bringing up all your anecdotal evidence, stuff it, I've got plenty of my own. Evidence isn't required anyway, especially the anecdotal kind - what you need is a good understanding of how kids think and a solid relationship built on respect. Not fear.

November 21, 2007 at 11:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I concur with the last poster. The more you hit kids, the less attention they pay to it. I was caring for my niece's child and I noticed as we were driving that he was attempting to defeat the strapping system on his car seat (I had washed the seat cover and had forgotten to adjust the straps when I put him in the seat--my fault, I know). Being out of a seatbelt is totally forbidden in my car and I angrily told him I was going to spank him for doing it. It immediately got his attention and he pleaded, "No, no." Fortunately there was nowhere to pull over, so I was over the impulse by the time I could stop and adjust the belts. The point? The mere mention of a spanking from me immediately stopped the behaviour because he knows I don't believe in hitting children. I have witnessed the same child totally ignore other adults who threaten him with a spanking because they regularly indulge in spanking him, so evidently he sees no proportionality in the punishments they mete out.
My younger sister has the two best-behaved children I have ever met. They also don't believe in hitting and instead give their kids abundant amounts of everything they do need: attention, sleep (my sister was a nut about this; kids need up to 13 hours per day and you know the kids with their parents at WalMart at 9 or 10 pm are not getting it), and love. I think most parents give their kids enough love, and probably adequate amounts of attention, but there would be serious improvement of kids' behaviour if someone insisted they go to bed at 7 or 8 pm. In the end, hitting kids is just a reflection of their caretakers' failures.

November 22, 2007 at 4:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think there is a difference between abuse and corporal punishment. people do learn through their physical bodies. yes, it's true that some kids are able to learn about negative consequences through talking about them, but how many three year olds do you know who will actually stop mid-tantrum because you tell them they won't get dessert? it's maybe half. the punishment should fit the issue, but i feel the "no let the little darlings run free" movement has gone too far - we weren't even allowed to use time-outs and the last place i worked because it was demoralizing to the kid who had been trying to hit his teachers and fellow students. we did it anyway. punishment, physical or psychological, is the most effective form of training when used in a timely fashion, in proportion, and without remorse. true fact.

November 30, 2007 at 9:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I feel that it really depends on what the child has done as to what punishment the child should receive. I have only been spanked once in my life, but I sure have written a lot of lines in my time, grounded once or twice, or had some privilege taken away and I think I turned out alright.

November 14, 2008 at 5:03 AM  

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